My God Cares About Hearts, Not Crotches

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John, why do you write so much about gays? With all the issues we have in the world, why do you spend so much time obsessing on that one?

That was part of an email I just read.

It’s not the first time I’ve been asked that question (especially lately). So, here’s le scam on that particular skinny:

Of the 865 posts I’ve written for this blog in the last three and a half years, maybe 15 are about the relationship between gays and Christianity. If that’s an obsession, I’m a meat-adorned Lady Gaga. (Mmmm … delicious gaga-bacon … .)

Speaking generally, the reason I write about gays and Christianity is because the church of Jesus Christ on earth is in the throes of its second great and terrible reformation. That’s happening over this single issue. I’m surprised I ever write about anything else.

Personally speaking, the reason I so care about this issue is because of my friends.

My father is a straight man with an overdeveloped hambone. He’s an actor; he’s always been Joe Local Theater. Thus did I grow up knowing gay men. Not that as a kid I knew or cared what “gay” even meant. But I knew that I liked pretty much all my dad’s thespian pals. They were fun people. I thought of some of them as my friends.

Fast forward to me at seventeen. I still had no clue what gay and/or lesbian even meant. I grew up in an upper-middle class suburb grounded in good, clean 50′s values. And I personally am almost frightfully straight. So as a teen, the very idea of homosexual sex was like unto my consciousness as was the proper conjugation of irregular verbs in Chinese, or the varying lifespans of moths native to Borneo. It was just … the opposite of present.

At seventeen I left high school and moved out of my house. Like my father, I’d become an actor. And so, in the natural course of things, I had made friends with other actors my age. Some of those actors went to schools other than mine. (We’d all met via contests of the National Forensics League; I was quite the Humorous and Dramatic Interpretation star.)

Wow. I can see this post is going to go on forever. I can’t tell my whole life here. (Though I am writing a book just now, see, which in some Major Ways is a memoir. But I digest.) Time to become …  Succincto Man!

I’m not sure I’ve ever not had in my life a very dear gay friend. Not a casual friend or acquaintance: an actual, true, day-in, day-out friend.

People (my age) who, by taking me into their family homes, rescued me from my own intolerable home. Roommates. Co-workers. College friends. Just … people. Friends.

You invite into your life the highest quality people in your life at that time, right? That’s just … what people do. As it happens, for me that’s often been people of the LGBT persuasion. Those relationships have never been any more about sex than doing science experiments has to do with the relationship between me and my good friend, the (straight) retired chemistry professor.

This thing with Christians having issues with people because they’re gay is, to me, so foreign, and so incomprehensibly bizarre, that it doesn’t even register with me as reality. It’s a dynamic that simply exists for me beyond what I can access or comprehend. It’s as if, having been, say, elected to a city council, I discovered that at night, after the city council meetings, all my fellow council members gathered together in a big room, got naked, laid on their backs, and sang Lithuanian military songs while kicking beach balls around in the air with their feet.

That just wouldn’t compute with me.

But what could I do? I’d be one of those elected to serve. I’d be obliged to be in that room.

But I wouldn’t take off my clothes. And I wouldn’t lie on the floor and kick beach balls around.

I’d probably sing some of the songs, though. I like songs. But that’s where I’d draw the line.

In my head and heart what matters is the quality of a person’s character. That’s it. It’s a one-issue deal for me. What I’m interested in is how kind someone is—how open, smart, wise, thoughtful. I care how moral they are.

What do I care if any given person is gay or straight? I’d be embarrassed to use a person’s sexual orientation as any sort of gauge by which to evaluate their moral character. It’s like trying to use a thermometer to check how fast a car is going. It’s just … well, stupid.

Becoming a Christian changed this core truth of my life and experience not one iota. I’m not turning my back on my friends because of the way in which someone once decided to interpret a few lines of the Bible. I can read the Bible on my own. I don’t need anyone to tell me what it says, or means, or means by what it says. I can do my own research. I got it.

I used to watch Jimmy and Tammy Bakker on TV. I watched Jimmy Swaggart. I watched Jerry Falwell. I watched Fred Price. I watched and read Billy Graham. I know from Rick Warren, Joyce Meyer, Joel Osteen, Chuck Colson. I’ve read the Church Fathers. I’ve read Aquinas, Augustine, Luther, Calvin, Donne (Donne!), Hooker, Bunyan, Pascal, Milton, Wesley, Spurgeon, Merton, Bonhoeffer, Chesterton, Lewis. I know history. I know philosophy. I’ve think I’ve read as many Bible commentaries as I have People magazines.

I got it. I understand Christianity.

And not because of anything I ever read, either. All that’s superfluous to the ongoing and informing presence of God in my life.

If you think that when God, looking to determine a person’s moral status, looks to his or her crotch, then … then I’m guessing you blush a lot. Not that there’s anything wrong with that! We should probably all (and especially these days) blush a little more often than we do.

Hey: what most interests God about a person is hardly their crotch. What interests God about a person, first, foremost, and forever, is their heart.

****

Be cool with me if you joined/”liked” my Facebook page.

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115 responses to this post.

  1. Hi John,

    Read your post. While I appreciated your honesty here, I’m confused by some of the things you said. They seemed almost contradictory. You seem to say that you are a Christian, yet in the very last line you state that you could care less about God. Did I read this wrong?

    Reply

    • Sigh.
      Yes, you read that wrong.

      Reply

    • I believe John is saying that he and he alone is responsible for his individual relation to God. I think he’s making the point that he doesn’t need any one to tell him how his relation to God should look, or how it should feel. He’s learned to see what looks like Jesus and what looks like a persons personal prejudice.

      Reply

    • Posted by Max Andrews on October 7, 2010 at 4:04 pm

      Basically John, I love everything you write. Ever.

      Don’t know why people read your masterpieces and then tell you they suck…

      It’s confusing. Your blog posts are amazing. Love them. That is all.

      Reply

  2. Terrace, if I may …

    John isn’t saying that God doesn’t interest him. Rather, it’s the god that’s obsessed with genitals that doesn’t interest him. I think that the “your” is important in that sentence.

    Reply

  3. Posted by Kara on October 6, 2010 at 5:52 pm

    Love this post. Makes me super-happy. Sometimes being a Christian gets tiring for me, so thanks for reminding me that it can be better than all that mess it’s been made into by some.

    I would love to see a post, or just people’s thoughts, on whether the God fundamentalists worship is the same God liberal Christians worship. How different do two entities have to be before they cease to be different versions of the same thing?

    Reply

  4. Posted by Jeremy on October 6, 2010 at 5:57 pm

    the church of Jesus Christ on earth is in the throes of its second great and terrible reformation, and it’s over this single issue. ‘

    _________

    So true. John Shore will be our Martin Luther. :)

    Reply

    • He might have to fight Jim Wallis to the church door.

      Reply

      • Posted by Mindy on October 7, 2010 at 7:52 am

        But the big difference is that Jim Wallis wants it. Christians want John Shore. Seems like a no-brainer.

        Says she, the unrepentant agnostic . . . . who just read John’s post on when he became a Christian in the broom closet, and would very much appreciate something that clear every happening to me to make sense of, well, ANYTHING!
        :)

        Reply

  5. John, I can’t help but feel especially friendly to anyone who has read Donne and writes his name with an exclamation. The finest of the metaphysical poets, IMHO… but Pope comes in a close second.

    You have hit the nail on the head with your comment about defining people on the content of their character. This approach dramatically undermines the usual biases, stereotypes, and lazy discriminations that are oh so easy to use. I hope others give this point some serious reflection, put it into practice to give it a spin, and be far richer for it.

    Reply

  6. Posted by Deana on October 6, 2010 at 6:12 pm

    Thanks for sharing John. I couldn’t agree with you more. I would like to add that I believe that gay Christians will have a HUGE impact on the world for Christ in the years to come. I mean if gay people can find love and acceptance in Christ, then ANYONE can, right? If we who are deemed unloveable and bound for hell can find hope and JOY in Christ, people will be forced to rethink their image of a the dictatorial-big-stick-carrying God they have always rejected.

    What saddens me is seeing people become agnostic because they cannot reconcile their faith with their sexuality. I’m so thankful for affirming churches such as Crossroads Community Church in Dallas, TX. Many ex-pastors, music ministers, Sunday School teachers, and dedicated Christ followers who were ousted by the “church” find peace here in the midst of a storm that rages outside those doors. Nothing like learning from a pastor who ministered along side Oral Roberts one day, came out, and was forced to disappear the next.

    So let me get this straight, God can use fat people, liars, cheats, adulterers, smokers, drinkers, but he can’t use gay people? Keep speaking the truth, John! We , the minority, need your voice!

    Reply

  7. Posted by Mary on October 6, 2010 at 6:29 pm

    Amen, John. Amen.

    Reply

  8. Posted by Gina Powers on October 6, 2010 at 6:29 pm

    Awesomeness once again, hoss…..will repost on my FB in a bit.

    Reply

  9. Posted by Mindy on October 6, 2010 at 6:36 pm

    First, John, to my knowledge, you can’t conjugate verbs in Chinese. Regular or not.

    Second, I want to sing along with the Lithuanian council. I might even join in the beachball fun, altho’ I’m with you on the no-nakey thing.

    Third, you are an inspiration, as always. Keep fighting the good fight!

    Reply

    • Do you know, I actually know that about Chinese verbs? But I figured … most people wouldn’t. (And I’m still not fully clear on how that works.) Way to blow it for me, Mindy. Man. Why can’t you ever write any good comments?

      Reply

      • Posted by Mindy on October 6, 2010 at 6:45 pm

        Yeah, well, you know how snarky I can get . . . .

        I know just enough about the Chinese language to know that my brain is not big enough to learn it. My girls know just enough to say stuff to each other and laugh because I can’t understand them. I’m fairly sure I’ve been insulted on a regular basis.

        Reply

        • What I know about Chinese is that if I knew the right dialect, the show “Firefly” would be a very different experience.

          Nothing to contribute, but I felt the need to say that.

          Please, carry on …

          Reply

          • Bee-jway, neen hen boo-tee-tyeh duh nan-shung! Dong-ma? ^_^

            Reply

            • Posted by Mindy on October 7, 2010 at 7:48 am

              How dare you! Potty mouth.

              Actually, I know only a few words in Chinese beyond counting and the niceties like please, hello, etc. I can say water, beer and butt.

              Not sure what that would get me on the streets of Beijing, but it makes little kids laugh. :)

              Reply

              • What are you talking about? In bars I all the time say, “Gimme a watery beer, butt.” Once you know the Chinese for “gimme,” you’re all set!

                Reply

                • Posted by Mindy on October 7, 2010 at 7:55 am

                  Is that in regular bars or gay bars? And do you SEE them water the beer? And do they ever ask you to address them as Ms. Butt, or Mr. Butt?

                  I’ll ask around about ‘gimme’ – all these cultural idiosyncrasies one must learn before one travels . . .

                • Gimme = 给我 = Gěi wǒ
                  Beer = 啤酒 = Píjiǔ

                  I’m afraid for the grammar you’re on your own, Mindy.

                • Watery might be 含水 or Hánshuǐ, but I don’t know how trustworthy that is.

                • Damn, see, that is why it would be nice to have a delete button. Only now I see that Mindy already said that she knows all these words. And I want to sink into the floor from shame. Can’t you just erase this and the two previous posts? Pretty-please? °_°#

                • Posted by Mindy on October 8, 2010 at 8:31 am

                  No shame, no shame! I knew water but not water-y – “shui” by itself is water, sort of pronounced ‘shwey’ – but Chinese-ier.

                  And I did NOT know “gimme” – so you helped. Do not sink into the floor. We need you here.

          • Posted by jes on October 8, 2010 at 7:56 am

            http://fireflychinese.kevinsullivansite.net/story.html

            The Chinese phrases used in Firefly, and their translations. :D

            Reply

      • I thought you knew it.

        Reply

  10. Posted by Scott on October 6, 2010 at 7:39 pm

    If I’d known Christians like you back when I was one, I might still be one.

    Reply

  11. Thank you, Mr. Shore!
    Um, you know, I thought. What if, I mean, just as a scientific hypothesis, it really isn’t us queers who are sick, but those so appalled by queers. Not evil, or morally bankrupt or anything, but what if they really are somehow ill in the head. So they need to keep us from marrying, and so they need to keep bullying us, and need to hunt for and cling to those bible verses that prove them right and feel so relieved that they are not faggots and all. Is there some research testing such an hypothesis? Some real theories on what maybe makes these people sick that way? Not the usual pseudo-religious or they-are-all-queer-themselves superficial brush-off, but real science? I mean, look at how much money is spent on suppressing gay rights. Somebody must be curious WHY they keep spending it, mustn’t there?
    My venues of research are a bit limited where I live these days, and so far sources like google or wikipedia have proven pretty weak there. There is so many theories around what makes a person queer, but really none convincing that explain what makes a person loath it so. With such an abiding, deep seated, passionate revulsion and hatred and fervour. Do you or anyone else here have an answer or can direct me to someone who has?

    Reply

    • I would say that anyone as obsessed with other people’s sex lives as the anti-gay people you’re describing is sick.

      Reply

      • But what the **** makes them sick that way? Yeah, there is a million idiots and wackos out there, but why do so many of them agree on this one topic? Why can they leave us alone? I know now they say we are pushing our agenda down their throat, and yeah, we do. I want to anyway. But only because I got theirs pushed down my throat for so long when I just want to live my life, fall in love, be happy. But they couldn’t let it go. And I want to understand WHY they can’t. What is driving them?
        Maybe I need to know to be able to forgive them. Maybe I need to understand to be able to let them go. To go on, grow up, forget about the pain and humiliation. I dunno. But I really, really would like to know.
        Alas, nobody seems to…

        Reply

          • Can I read it somewhere?

            Reply

            • I haven’t written that post yet.

              Reply

              • Ah. Well. Count my breath bated. ^_^

                Reply

              • From what little I have read about you, I am convinced you wont tell us that it is because the bible says so. It may say so, but it certainly doesn’t press the point. So maybe you can include why they insist on blowing that bit of scripture so out of proportion.
                Someone in one of your comments (when I asked that questiono before) suggested that it is Christians holding onto the safety blanket of blind faith, and that any attack on the faith is an attack on their hidey hole, so they have to retailate with overblown aggressiveness. While that may be a little part of the problem, there is too many violations of Christian faith they happily ignore or even violate themselves in the pursuit of making the lives of queers miserable. So, that doesn’t hold water either.
                I hope you also won’t fall back onto the “self-loathing closeted homophobe” theory, because that doesn’t answer why they self-loath to begin with. Or that buggery is too icky… no public campains against str8 anal sex… or that is seems biologically unnatural… because so is wearing clothes and driving cars…
                The most convincing theory I’ve heard so far has to do with gender roles, that somehow two blokes or two girls snogging makes them doubt their manly-man or wifey-wife role in life, but even that seems, I dunno… is it really that much more threatening than all the other commonplace changes of women wokring and men staying home, male nurses, female cops, etc?

                Well, I suppose I’ll have to wait now, huh? ^_^

                Reply

                • Posted by Ace on October 7, 2010 at 6:14 am

                  “Or that buggery is too icky… no public campains against str8 anal sex…”

                  There are a lot of cultures where only the “recieveing” partner in such an act (if both are men) is considered a homosexual, because being the recipient of any sort of penetration is seen as “female”.

                  I really do think a lot of homophobia is directly rooted in a larger misogynistic culture. Even little boys are taught that anything girls do, they must not do (i.e. wear pink, play with dolls, etc). Their identity as “boy” is on a very basic level defined as “not-girl” and anything “girl” is undesirable if you want to be “boy”.

                  It’s not really surprising that Christian *culture* (though maybe not so much the actual teachings of the bible depending on how you interpret the passages in question) is extremely anti-homosexuality (especially male homosexuality) given that it is rooted in two patriarchal, male-oriented cultures (Roman particularly, and Jewish culture to a lesser extent)

                • Posted by Ace on October 7, 2010 at 6:17 am

                  (Also, the women’s lib movement has done a lot to break down the constructs of female gender identity in Western culture, but much less has been done to deconstruct the cultural prescripts of masculinity, for whatever reasons. Rigid gender roles restrict people of both sexes in the long run, but for whatever reason, most men I’ve spoken to about it don’t recognize it as a problem. This: http://thehathorlegacy.com/the-cult-of-masculinity/ is a good treatment of the subject though, for a starting place)

                • Posted by Soulmentor on October 7, 2010 at 11:44 am

                  I’m convinced the reason for the disproportionate noise by “Christians” against homosexuality is, indeed, a matter of protecting their blind faith. The Christian religion has made such a huge matter of sex in general and homo sex in particular that it has been traditional dogma for centuries and to rethink that is tantamount to shattering their entire faith structure. You know, it they are so wrong about that, how can they believe anything else about their “faith”?

                  Thus, blind “faith” has entrapped them in fear, not faith.

                • I’m convinced there is room in the explanation for the “icky” factor. I recall one or two of my children puzzling that we continued with something “so gross” even when we might have been satisfied with one or two less children.

                • Posted by StraightGrandmother on October 8, 2010 at 4:53 am

                  FreeFox I was surprised to read in one of your posts that you are under 30 years old. If I might suggest, go to law school you would make an outstanding attorney. You have the critical thinking and alalysis qualites that make for a great attorney. You can get free study materials to take the LSAT at a public library or purchase study books for the LSAT from Amazom.com who ships world wide. If you have not considered this previously I hope you think about it.

              • Posted by Mindy on October 7, 2010 at 5:10 am

                @John – And you are waiting for . . . ? Because I’m with Freefox, I want to know. Why the passionate interest in this? Why? I have my own theories, but none of them explain it completely. None of them really make sense of it at the core.

                I, too, will wait with bated breath.

                Reply

              • I am absolutely breathless with anticipation. BREATHLESS, I tell you!

                This is going to be a book soon, please?

                Reply

              • Posted by jes on October 7, 2010 at 8:52 pm

                You tease!

                Reply

        • Posted by StraightGrandmother on October 8, 2010 at 4:46 am

          I agree with you FreeFox why or why do they hunt down, persecute, denegrate, and reject GLBT people? Why? Why? Why? I am in a facebook discussion with several either pastors or divinty students and philosophers on this same subject and I think I am holding my own over there. But I aksed the same question, WHY? Are GLBt people hunted down, yes ask the 13,000 people who have been hunted down and tossed out of the military. I asked, you know Divorce is not approved in your churches either unless it is for infidelity, yet you don’t raise millions upon millions upon millions of dollars and put millions of feet on the street to change the civil laws we have to stop issuing divorces unless it is for infidelity. You don’t preach sermons, that divorced people are living in a state of sin and shun them like you do to GLBT people. You don’t preach to divorced people that they should go back with their ex- spouce in order to live in a state of Grace with God, like you preach to GLBT people that they have to convert to being straight, or live a celibate life in order to be in a state of Grace with God.

          No you accept them into your churches, in fact they are not shunned at all, even though they have *gasped* gotten a divorce. You may preach a divorce sermon now and then urging people to stay together and work it out, but your sermons as far as I remember hearing them in my church, never took the next step and condemned to the other congregation members as evil bad people who have gone to the side of the devil, and urged them to go back and repent and hook back up with their ex.

          So why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why do they persecute GLBT people so? These preiests and pastors must know that just statistically they must have GLBT youth sitting in thier pews listening to them preach about how gay is bad, gay means going to hell, how being “who you are” is a sin agaisnt God. They must know by now with all these GLBT teen suicides (and shame on them for not thinking about this earlier) that they are arming the bullies, giving them ammunition, and completely wrecking the self esteem of the GLBT youth, and adults in their pews.

          Why are other “sins” given such a light treatment in their teaching and sermons but not the gay? For example go the the Southern Baptist website, do they have policy statements on being overweight or maybe drug and alchohol self abuse, or even other sins I can’t hink of right now. Hey do they have a policy statement about not cheating on your taxes? Why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, why, do they perscute GLBT people so? WHY? John if you know why, pahleeze tell us because I really really want to know why? When their preaching does so much harm, why are they relentless in attacking the gay?

          Reply

    • In reading this, there’s something semi-random I thought about… I take a lot of life-lessons from fiction.

      I remember a while back, I was reading Douglas Addams’ books – I remember one of them (“So Long, and Thanks for the All the Fish” I think) featuring the greatest threat to the universe – a genocidal culture that were… actually pretty nice people if you sat down and talk to them. Krikitt. (Correct me if I’m getting any of this wrong, it’s been a while since I’ve read the HGTTG series).

      Anyway, the planet of Krikitt was cloaked in a dark cloud (something created by an evil supercomputer or something, if I recall correctly) so that its inhabitants had no moon and no stars by night and were quite isolated. It was a rather nice little planet, full of old fashioned family values with a focus on the agrarian lifestyle. That is, until someone built an experimental spaceship, and with a friend, broke free of the atmosphere. Seeing all the stars blanketing the universe scared the everloving poo outta them and they turned to each other and said “It’s gotta go.” Ever since, Krikitt had been trying to *destroy* everything “non-Krikitt” to put the universe the way they wanted it/”back” to the way they’d always “known.”

      I tend to think that a lot of people with prejudices are the same way – they grow up in one kind of environment and are shown and told a certain set of ways the world is supposed to work. I think growing up, more often than not, is a process of learning to “think in grays” because once out from under the wings of your parents, when you start exploring the world on your own, you find out that the world just isn’t the same one you knew when you were a kid. Some people, when they see people acting in ways they didn’t grow up knowing much or anything about, or they meet people who don’t fit the sterotypes they were fed — they don’t accept it and move on, they get angry, and want to destroy the thing that’s messing up their safe mental landscape.

      I don’t know, just some random thoughts.

      Reply

      • Again, the Krikkit theory could have something to do with it, but it, too, doesn’t explain why being queer so incredibly worse than mobile phones were when they were new, or why there wasn’t a massive Christian drive to prevent travel to the moon, or why only the Amish think that the internal combustion engine is an abomination unto God (well, I don’t want to wrong any Amish, I’m not familiar with their theology, but I understand they have some scriptural problem with gasoline powered cars). Why is a bloke kissing a bloke so much worse? (It isn’t even NEW, after all, think Plato, think Alexander the Great, think Tony Curtis in Spartakus.)

        Reply

        • Posted by jes on October 8, 2010 at 8:10 am

          I may be misunderstanding the Amish (don’t have many around here, so I’m kind of extrapolating from Mennonite), but I don’t think they think you will go to hell for using an engine. It is more that it’s an unnecessary luxury, and life is meant to be simple and frugal so that you can find the small joys and not overwhelm them with meaningless frivolities. They use a car to haul stuff or go long distances, but they *gasp* walk to the neighbor’s. Computers are okay for business purposes but playing pop-cap games on the internet is a waste of time and you should be studying or working or reading the Bible.

          I have never actually asked a Mennonite their opinion on gays–mostly I interact with them at work, and it hardly seems appropriate to start a political/religious discussion while I’m working on their pony, you know? But the families I’ve met around here have seemed to be of the live and let live persuasion, not the force it down your throat variety. Very into politeness and respect, with curious but quiet kids.

          Reply

  12. Nice new title there, John. Subtle. Real subtle.

    Kind of like a chainsaw.

    I like it.

    Reply

  13. Posted by Marie on October 7, 2010 at 4:28 am

    I can’t type…. I’m too busy clapping my hands!!!!!

    Reply

  14. Posted by Ace on October 7, 2010 at 4:31 am

    I know a lot of people who might not have given up on church and Jesus if the Christians they grew up in the midst of had brains more like yours.
    :|

    Reply

  15. Oh, I totally agree with this article, every word, except I don’t know any lithuanian, and my dexterity skills are woefully lacking, keeping me out of the beachball kicking part of things.

    it is interesting to notice, as I think you are subtly pointing out, repeatedly over the past several weeks, is that people seem think they know what God wants for his “club” called Christianity. The truth is obvious that people can be utterly clueless, having figured out a particular criteria for enrollment, and that people either have to be a certain way to become a member or to go through certain steps to obtain membership. Then they go to church and sing “Come just as you Are.”

    Those they feel had snuck past the membership committee without passing all the re-reqs they quickly revoke the membership, then teach the kids “Jesus loves the little children.”

    The reality is that God’s membership requirements are much more expansive. He welcomes the sick, the poor, the genius, the idiot, the gay, the straight, the in between, the democrat, the republican, the independent, the single mother, the dead beat dad, the drug addict, the mouthy teenager, the great grandfather with a checkered past. He welcomes us all, having loved us from our beginning, being delighted when we recognize His love for us, and try, ineptly, to tell others how awesome His love is.

    I feel that God is very delighted with our willingness to share His love with others no matter who they are, and recognizing that without His guidance we will utterly suck at that task. It is the willingness to keep trying that matters.

    Reply

  16. Around 12 years ago when I suddenly became a Christian, I quietly joined in the naked-beach-ball-chorus thingy, although I never really mastered it. I have only one LGBT friend and one friend who has a gay son. As I’ve grown I’ve quietly slipped out of the chorus. Some have noticed, some have not. Bloggers like yourself, John, and Anita have helped me to understand my reservations and ultimately, objections to our bizarre emphasis.

    This morning I checked on biblegateway.com and did you know that the word Love occurs 700 times in the bible, while homosexual occurs just 4 times. Ask 100 Christians what God’s Love looks like in this world and you’ll get about 200 different answers. Ask the same group about homosexuality and viola, unity. clarity. It’s as though we’ve translated the verse that says, “we are one in Christ Jesus” into “we are one if only we all condemn homosexuality.” It is kind of bizarre.

    Reply

    • Posted by Mindy on October 7, 2010 at 7:53 am

      Well. Now there’s some food for thought, Ric.

      Interesting. And why??? That seems to be the big question of the day.

      Reply

      • I’m dying to see what John writes about this, but I personally suspect the answer has something to do with the need to feel morally superior. We all have it…I even have it. Its just that my need to be morally superior has to do in how much more loving I am than the people that are all busy with the hating.

        Oh, that and oxytocin. Hateful people just need some Oxytocin added to their water supply. Dr. Google tells me so.

        Reply

        • Posted by Ace on October 7, 2010 at 9:03 am

          You can get more oxytocin by more hugs!

          WE NEED MORE HUGS, THAT’S WHAT’S WRONG WITH THE WORLD.

          Reply

        • But why do they all have to feel morally superiour to me? On grounds of me snogging boys, to boot. I can see how someone would feel morally superiour to me on grounds that I am an ex-thief, and an ex-con (or whatever you call someone who spent half a year in juvie hall), that I drank too much or that I smoke, or that I regularely got into fights. Even that I am a bloody redhead, if they absolut need something. Peeps mighthave been pissed off at me for stealing or lying or fighting, but they hardly ever despised me for it. But see me kiss a boy, and they’d all be all grossed out.
          It must be more than JUST the need to be morally superiour. There must be some reason why THIS makes them feel that way.

          Reply

          • Posted by jes on October 8, 2010 at 8:15 am

            Wait, you’re a red-head? I dunno if I can like you any more, FreeFox. :P

            I wish I had an answer. If I knew why, I might be able to start changing it. But the whole thing has never made sense to me. It completely defeats any logic I try to apply to it, and logic is the only way I know to address puzzles. Guess we can always fall back on the good old “Devil is misleading them” argument, but that gets awfully circular when they’re accusing us of the same.

            Reply

        • Posted by StraightGrandmother on October 8, 2010 at 5:10 am

          I don’t, I dont’ have the need to be morally superior to anyone. Well stop, maybe I do! I do think that my morals of loving and respecting people, all people, the gay and straight, the Christian and the Buddist is superior to others who believe that other people that are not like them are “less” than them. The Mexican undocumented person living on the edge of our society, he is not the scum of the earth robbing me of something. He is a human being jsut as I am first and foremost a member of the human species, period. So I guess I am guilty as charged, I do feel that my morals are superior and thus I am no different than the Christian Right who think his morals are superior. Guilty, yes I am guilty of that.

          Reply

          • Posted by Mindy on October 8, 2010 at 8:39 am

            But you ARE morally superior to them, so you have a right to think so.

            ;->

            And you know how I know? Because you admitted it. They would never, ever – they say, “Oh, no, no – I don’t feel superior, I’m a sinner, too. I love everyone, I just hate their sins.” And then they feel perfectly comfortable legislating said sins, thereby imposing their moral-based-on-religion code upon everyone, all the while insisting they are just upholding our Constitution. Which most of them have never read all the way through – at least in my experience. They embody hypocrisy and either are incapable of recognizing that or completely unwilling to admit it.

            And as far as I’m concerned, hypocrisy is one of the BIG SINS.

            Reply

      • I vote: Fear. We do and say some bizarre things out of fear. I think some are afraid of their own sexual desires. This isn’t the only fear, though. Fear of change is huge. Changing one’s view and interpretation of scripture is likened to changing God (to be something more to our liking), which is (technically) blasphemy and/or heresy. No one “wants” to be labeled a blasphemer or heretic (well, almost no one). The flip side is this: to disallow different interpretations, is to claim to have God all figured out.

        Reply

        • Yeah, fear does seem to cover a large patch of it. Fear of their own sexuality, hm, why does that make them loath queers? If they aren’t queer, why would a different sexuality scare them? Even though they seem to obsess about it, we really ren’t out to recruit or “inject” anyone with our “lyfestyle” any more than any str8 bloke is out to rape every woman he encounters. And if they are queer themselves… why does THAT scare so much? Unless there is already some reason to fear hot, sweaty, man-on-man sex… rawr ^_^ … (or grrl-on-grrl), and so I wonder: What is that original fear? As for “change”, again, yeah but see my answer to the Krikkit argument about “newness”. Lot’s of things change. Being queer isn’t new by a long stretch. So I still have to ask, WHY do they fear it so much? What exactly is so fear inspiring in dudes snogging? It’s a bit silly, it’s a bit scratchy, and if he hasn’t brushed his teeth or is a big smoker it can be a bit, well, let’s say mints can improve the experience… but scary? Why?
          (Sorry if I get repetitive, but it has been bothering me for a long time… ever since my own big brother slammed me against the wall of his room and told me to never, ever tell anyone what I was as long as we lived together, or he’d break every bone in body. I really want to know what exactly is so scary about me.)

          Reply

          • Posted by StraightGrandmother on October 8, 2010 at 5:14 am

            Is your brother still like that or did he change?

            Reply

          • Posted by Ace on October 8, 2010 at 6:39 am

            I think a lot of it really is people who are not comfortable in their own sexuality. There are plenty of men who are married, have 3+ kids and are still “living on the down-low” having sex with other men without their family knowing, because they can’t admit to themselves they are gay.

            Heck, I knew people in high school who were most vehemently anti-gay who a few years later came out of the closet. It’s probably a lot more common than people think. I also knew a few girls (siblings) whose father got caught down in Atlanta acting as a male prostitute, nobody had suspected anything, and you can bet that didn’t blow over quickly in our small community.

            Life is weird like that.

            I’m sorry your brother reacted to you like that, that is such a shame.

            Reply

    • Posted by Soulmentor on October 7, 2010 at 11:57 am

      Homosexual occurs so rarely in the Bible because the word wasn’t even coined until the late 1800′s. Until then, the word in the Bible most closely thought to refer to homosexuals was “effeminate”, which everyone knows does not necessarily refer to homosexuals and to change effeminate to homosexual in the Bible is a blatantly dishonest distortion. The fact is, that in the many cultures that influenced the Biblical writers (as opposed to the mind boggling number of interpreters since) there was no particular distinction, let alone word, for men who sexually loved other men. It just was and no one thot much of it, apparently not even Jesus, who never mentioned it.

      Reply

  17. Posted by Audra on October 7, 2010 at 4:44 am

    I’ve been reading your blogs for a few months and I’ve grown to like you more and more for your stand on this issue. As a newbie Christian I’ve had some conservatives tell me how God “changes your heart”. As someone who identifies as straight but believes that God loves us all and doesn’t see the sin in homosexuality because it also is love, not to mention God made them too, I didn’t see why God would need to change my heart. Your blogs are wonderful! Not just for the LGBT community that need to know Christians support them and love them as they are but also for newbies like me, who also has LGBT friends but is following her heart in faith knowing that just as God would not forsake me he would never forsake my friends even when those who have been at this God stuff a lot longer then I have speak louder. Thank you.

    Reply

  18. (Thanks for these excellent, heart-warming, very encouraging comments. I’ve read each, and taken each to heart. Oh–and, for what it’s worth–I’ve written another new ending for this piece. [What IS it with this piece? This'll be the last one, for sure---or my name isn't Tinker McTinkerston.])

    Reply

  19. An electrical engineer, a mechanical engineer, and a civil engineer are having a beer together and speculating on which of their professions is most God-like.

    “God must be an electrical engineer! Look at the nervous system and it’s intricate network of synapses!”

    “God must be a mechanical engineer! Look at the skeletal and muscular systems!”

    The civil engineer chuckles: “Fellas, he’s got to be a civil engineer. Only a civil engineer would put a waste treatment facility in the middle of a major recreational area.”

    I now return you to your serious and thoughtful discussion, already in progress.

    ~D

    Reply

  20. Posted by Woody on October 7, 2010 at 7:41 am

    Thank you, as you give me hope that there Christians who do not use Gays and Lesbians as a religious and political punching bag.

    Reply

  21. Great post John! I was just a little curious: how do bisexuals fit into this whole thing from the Christian perspective? We are often overlooked by both the bigots and the defenders.

    Reply

    • Clearly, Mr. Ely, there is no single “Christian perspective.” So the answer to your question would of course depend upon what sort of Christian you asked. I think you know what the fundamentalist would answer. And I’m sure you know what I would.

      Reply

      • Yeah, I guess you are right. I don’t really see much bigotry around where I live, so I have no standard by which to judge such things. People always trash talk Texas has being a bunch of rednecks, but people in the Dallas / Fort Worth area are amazingly supportive of gay and lesbians. Just never any mention of bisexuals at all. I will just be glad about that and move on.

        Reply

        • Posted by Vicky on October 7, 2010 at 4:51 pm

          Being Bi myself and having looked into this particular “sub-culture” of the gay community, a lot of times we’re overlooked simply because we’re not one or the other. We’re both, which in and of itself is a hard concept to grasp (something that I find hard to understand.). Straight folks see us as straight until we’re dating the same sex, and then we’re gay. Gay folks see us as gay until we’re dating the opposite sex, and then call us traders (on the harsher end of the spectrum). Both often see us as confused, or just “promiscous”, which is rediculous. Just because we like both genders, doesn’t mean we want to be with both at the same time. That’d be like calling an avid dog lover someone that’s into beastiality.

          Anywho, we’re mostly left out cause we’re not understood. A lot of times, to be seen, you have to actively work on it. Instead of wearing a rainbow bracelet, wear a Bi-pride one (colors are pink, blue, and purple). Look for bi-centric items, and if you’re bold enough, ones that will strike up conversations so that you can explain what it is. I’ve even seen some Bisexual groups with their own little spots in Pride Parades, waving flags and what not. Same with Transfolk and Bears (the big hairy dudes. They need lovin too lol).

          Hope that helps. :)

          Reply

          • Wrong. The problem straight and gay people have with bi-sexual people is that we/they are stone-cold jealous of you. Hello? Twice as many people potential sex partners! Totally unfair!

            Reply

            • That’s how I see too! More options makes for better choices. On several occasions, I have chosen a guy over a girl because the guy was simply better looking and/or more interesting than the available girls.

              Although, 80% of the time, I go with a chick.

              I have found that I usually have to stick with female friends however, because straight males fear me and gay males are angry at me. lol, such a silly situation I have gotten myself into!

              Reply

          • Yeah, I have had gay guys get PISSED when they see me with a girl because they just assumed that I was gay, lol. I think it’s funny. I actually don’t know any other bisexual guys, just girls.

            This one girl tried to tell me that there is no such thing as bisexual. She told me I am heterosexual because I like women or I’m gay because I like men, there is no in between. I was shocked that she would say that after knowing me for years, lol.

            For me, it is mainly about freedom, like everything else I do. I do not feel a need to commit one way or the other. This does cause problems when it comes to serious relationships, which is one reason I tend to avoid them like the plague.

            I’m glad the bigots mostly leave Bis alone, but it would be nice for the general population to at least admit that we exist.

            Reply

            • Posted by Don Whitt on October 7, 2010 at 6:34 pm

              I’m sorry, but I can’t resist:

              Guy #1: I think my roommate’s gay.
              Guy#2: Really? Why?
              Guy#1: His penis tastes like shit.

              Thank you. I’ll be here all week, unfortunately for all of you.

              Personally, I think Bisexuals should call themselves Ambisextrous. Way better marketing.

              Reply

            • You could tell that girl that you are straight because you like girls AND you are queer because you like blokes. Two for the price of one. The more’s the better.
              Hey, how do you experience it: Is it a “I-don’t-care-about-their-dangly-bits-I-just-love-the-person” deal or more a “yummy-man-dangly-bits-yummy-girl-well-quivering-bits-ooh-they’re-both-so-delicious” thing? I mean, do you not care if it’s a guy or a gal, or do they just both have so much, if different, goodiness to offer? (Did that question in any way make sense?)

              Reply

              • lol, yeah, I think I understand what you are asking.

                I generally choose first by pure physical attraction. Secondly I prefer interesting personalities. Boring people are a huge turn off.

                All my serious relationships have been with females. With guys, it is always just about having a good time. There are less emotional needs in that sort of arrangement.

                And yes, they do both offer a lot of “goodiness” but in different ways.

                Overall, I tend to keep it on a “friends with benefits” level. Keeping my relationships casual frees up a lot of time and effort for me to spend on meeting my goals.

                Reply

  22. Posted by Soulmentor on October 7, 2010 at 11:28 am

    It’s interesting to note that the reference that popped into my email and alerted me to this article was headlined like this: “About LGBT people I’ll listen to my God, thanks.”

    Now, nowhere in the article does John write “my God”, but there is a point here I want to make. I think we each do, indeed, have our own God in our minds. God, after all, is an abstract concept. No one can get around that fact because God cannot be defined, therefore It (God) HAS to be abstract, an abstract that, in our minds, demands definition, which is made by each of us. Even the Bible does not define God in any way we can all agree on. Therefore, we each create in our minds, our own definition of God. God, therefore, is made in OUR image thereby, in effect, becoming our own God replete with self-righteousness.

    Jesus resolved that conundrum but illustrating God to us in his human form. Anyone who spouts what “God says” should stop, rethink, re-reference, and THINK JESUS. The world would be so blessedly different.

    Reply

    • @Soulmentor: I *think* I pretty much agree with what you mean, but I would phrase it differently. “Abstract” and “in our minds” sounds so dry and cerebral. While, technically, of course we use our brains/minds for emotions as much as for reason, that which can be called GOD is for us humans less a rational construct and more a spiritual experience (what those that don’t share it usually think of to as delusional craziness).
      God isn’t as much abstract as transcendent. It isn’t as much deducted as experienced. God’s presence goes beyond – transcends – rational thought, or selfish emotion. It connects us to something larger, to everything, really, the entirety of awe-inspiring creation. Of course anybody can make up any old definition of “god” that he wants, but I would argue that if it doesn’t fill you with Awe (according to thefreedictionary.com awe [ô], n., describes a mixed emotion of reverence, respect, dread, and wonder inspired by authority, genius, great beauty, sublimity, or might) – with the greatest possible of awes, really, it doesn’t really deserve the name “God”.
      But yes, by it’s very nature this experience can never be fully understood, or explained, or described to someone else, and is intensely subjective, i.e. very, very different for anyone who experiences it. Not because God is different, but because each human life can only experience such a tiny, subjective fragment of it, filtered by culture, personality, and circumstances. It is exactly feeling that this unimaginable, unexperiencable *More* is out there that makes the experience, well, God. Even the bible is just a helpless attempt to frame as much as possible of this experience into human language.
      I probably disagree with you very much on the subject of Jesus, but we can agree that anyone claiming to KNOW God’s will, or who even thinks that God’s will is so small that it could at all be framed into a single purpose sentence in human language, obviously doesn’t know what they are talking about.

      Reply

  23. Still reading…still enjoying…still wrangling kiddos instead of engaging in discussion.

    Just wanted you to know I’m still here. I enjoyed this post.

    Reply

  24. Oh, and just the word ‘crotch’ makes me blush, so…thanks a lot, John!

    Reply

    • I don’t know if the word crotch appears in scripture anywhere. It may be that the word feet is a euphemism for what the angel in Isaiah’s vision was covering with two of his wings. While it cried: Holy! Holy!

      Reply

  25. Posted by Gina Powers on October 7, 2010 at 6:00 pm

    I forgot to mention– LOVED the sentence “delicious Gaga bacon”….as a friend of mine likes to intone, “Tis crunchy & dandy”….;).

    Reply

  26. Posted by John Murphy on October 8, 2010 at 3:26 am

    Sooner or later, John, you are going to have to deal with Paul. Or did I miss that blog post?

    Reply

  27. Posted by Chellee on October 8, 2010 at 8:50 am

    I HAVE to agree with John. It IS a one-issue issue. It’s really V.E.R.Y. S.I.M.P.L.E.

    Jesus said it….,”Assuredly, I say to you, whoever DOES NOT RECEIVE THE KINGDOM OF GOD AS A LITTLE CHILD WILL BY NO MEANS ENTER IT.” Mark 10:15

    Wow. Pretty simple. RECEIVE is a key word. To receive is pretty wonderful. It means to accept with great joy. To all you gay-bashers…..this means YOU. To receive as a little child is to see with unspoiled eyes. To accept without judgment. A little child does not know HOW to judge. They don’t see differences.

    My little granddaughter, Bella Rose, is 4 years old. She CANNOT see that people are different. Not ones in wheelchairs…..not ones that have different color skin….not ones that are deaf (as is my sweet daughter-in-law). She thinks everyone is wonderful. She runs to embrace our two lesbian friends….and thinks they are the cat’s meow. Which they are! They are two of the most fantastic people EVER!

    The ONLY people she really does not accept are those that are mean. She does not understand them. She asks why they are that way. She does not ask why all the others I mentioned are that way. She doesn’t care. She DOES love them though. She talks to them and is also very honest with them. If they ask her something….she answers. However…..because she’s only 4, she only talks to them about it if they bring it up. And then she’s honest. But if they don’t, she wants to play with them. She sometimes wants to cuddle. She loves to sing and dance with them. She wants to show them her toys and just generally share her little sweet world with them. And if she’s hurt….she shows them her boo-boo. If they’re hurt, she comforts them. That’s it. She doesn’t scheme and plan on how to “save” them.

    If you really pay attention to Jesus’ life, you see a very simplistic ministry. He taught (CAUSE THAT’S WHO HE “WAS”)….and the way he taught was simple. He stood and he talked. Shared. LOVED!!!! He cared about people WHERE THEY WERE!! He met them where they were. He went to them and loved them. The ONLY reason he EVER brought up their sin, was to LOVE ON THEM AND GIVE THEM THE GOOD NEWS. NOT to condemn them…..not to assault them with the truth. He never ever did that. And everyone who does that does not represent him. They represent THE ACCUSER. God never accuses.

    The only people he ever got mad at were the religious ones who were mis-handling the kingdom.

    Oh……and one more thing…..

    the very next verse says, “And He took them up into His arms, laid His hands on them, and blessed them.”

    That’s who he is. And he wants us to be just like him!
    I think I’d like that!
    The end. By Chellee

    Reply

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