A young man wrote me the other day to ask why God doesn’t once and for all prove his existence. Here’s my answer to that earnest seeker. (Yo! Danny! Do good in school! And don’t take drugs! And … well, actually, that pretty much covers it.)
First of all, God did prove his existence; that’s pretty much the whole point of the Bible specifically and Christianity generally.
So. Massively gargantuan point.
But I know that what you mean is why doesn’t God prove his existence again — and this time, to you personally.
If you think about that question, though, you’ll see pretty soon that what anyone asking it really wants is for God to not only prove to them personally that he exists, but to simultaneously prove his existence to a whole bunch of other people, too. Because if God proved his existence to just you, then that’s going to leave you with one whopper of a challenge on your hands, insofar as right away your choices will boil down to exactly two: Either tell people how you personally encountered God, and risk them thinking you’re absolutely badoinkers — or don’t tell anyone how God proved to you he was real, and risk having a stress-induced heart attack from having to keep such an extraordinary experience locked up inside of you.
See? Neither’s what you’d call an Optimum Situation.
And that is why anyone who claims to want irrefutable, objectively verifiable proof of God’s existence must also want God to prove he exits to everyone else in the world — or to half of them, anyway, so that he or she will at least be in the majority of people.
And God proving the reality of his existence to everyone all at once pretty much boils down to him suddenly, all around the world, appearing in the sky, and in a booming voice announcing (something like), “Hello, world! Surprise! It’s me! Try not to faint!” And of course he would have to say whatever he said in the language that any given person listening to him could understand. Including, come to think of it, baby talk.
Point is: It would be quite the Logistical Challenge.
But hey! It’s God! If anyone could pull it off, he’d be the … divine entity to do it!
And do you know what would happen if God did, all at once, to everyone in the world, finally prove his existence? People all over the world would scream, and faint, and exclaim, and tear their hair and rend their clothes — and then they’d realize that they just got so bored they’d all slump over and pass out.
Bottom line? God doesn’t prove to you in an objectively verifiable way that he exists because he knows doing so would flat-out ruin you.
The truth is, we don’t want God to prove he’s real to us in the same way everything else in our lives that’s “real” to us is real to us. Because it would destroy that within us which keeps us ever moving forward toward resolution, knowledge, clarity, context, wholeness. It would strip from us the very thing that makes us human.
Just imagine it. Imagine God really appeared before you, in physical form — that he spoke and talk and … hung out at your place for awhile.
First, you’d be awed and amazed!
And then — and in fairly short order, too – you’d become a zombie. Because there’d be no mystery left in your life.
Who remains deeply fascinated by a novel when they already know how it ends?
We need God to be mysterious. In order for us to have the richest, most human experience possible for us in this life and on this earth, we need God, and all Essential, Divine Matters, to be just beyond our rational comprehension, just outside of our grasp.
Our relationship with God needs to be, to us, a two-way, interactive, give-and-take, constantly exchanging sort of relationship — of essentially the same sort as we have with everyone else in our lives. If God just appeared to all of us, all at once, the fundamentals of our personal relationship to him would instantly be so radically altered — we’d be so thoroughly pushed out of the subjective give-and-take role that’s actually necessary to keep us engaged with God — that … that we’d no longer be who we are.
We’d be … Us, Severely Unplugged.
Our spiritual initiative would be gone.
We move forward because we want to know.
If we did know, we’d stop.
Not so good.
You don’t, actually, want God to “prove” his existence, any more than you want to lose, for instance, your imagination.
Here’s another reason it actually doesn’t make any sense to desire that God suddenly prove to everyone that he exists: It’s not God’s primary purpose to work with people as a whole, from the outside. God develops his relationship with us individually, from inside of us: God speaks to our heart, to our soul, to our experience, in the ways we most need to hear and understand him. God loves each one of us personally –a nd he wants to communicate that personally, intimately, carefully, delicately; he wants to communicate everything about himself — and us — to us in the ways and at the times that are best for us.
God had no natural interest in just … overpowering everyone at once.
Please.
This is God we’re talking about, not … P.T. Barnum.
God is pleased to be “real” where he can be the most real — where you can comprehend the most of him — which is inside of you. God is a spiritual power. The fullest communion with God must happen spiritually; it must happen inside of you, not outside of you.
The bottom line is that while you might think you want God to objectively “prove” his existence, you don’t, in fact, want that at all.
You don’t want that because you’re more complex than that. You don’t want that because your needs are more real than that.
You don’t want that because you were designed to be better than that.
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Posted by John Shore on November 9, 2007 at 6:55 am
I fear it’s obnoxious to say, but I address much of what you’re here asking in my post, “Evil: Surprise! It’s a Good Thing!” It’s here:
http://johnshore.wordpress.com/2007/07/10/evil-surprise-it%e2%80%99s-a-good-thing/
Posted by Atheists of America Agree: Christianity Makes Eminent Rational Sense! « Suddenly Christian on February 29, 2008 at 7:04 pm
[...] whether or not to believe in him. (For more about this particular dynamic, please see my, Why Doesn’t God Just Prove He Exists?) It is precisely God’s love for people (that is, for the qualilty that most wholly defines [...]
Posted by Pastor Mike Stahl on March 9, 2008 at 5:47 am
” The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good. ”
(Psalm 14:1 )
Guess GOD had ‘em pretty well ‘pegged’ , Huh ?
God BLESS YOU ALL –
Pastor Mike
Posted by Emory on March 17, 2008 at 7:22 pm
It seems to me that if God showed that He exists to everyone in the world, at once, and in different languages….that it would be an easy task for Him and not a logistical nightmare.
If He did so, we would not loser purpose, become bored, be ruined, etc. but just the opposite. Mankind would realize that the Bible is indeed the Word and that God is with us. Our behavior would change from that of sin and then asking forgiveness, to that of obeying the commandments as we should.
I think it would be a good thing and I do at times, wonder why God doesn’t give us some sort of sign that He really is here and He really does care.
Posted by Stella on April 7, 2008 at 7:09 am
Bless you! Your post was awesome; really touched my heart! Everything you said is SOOOO TRUE!
Posted by John Shore on April 7, 2008 at 7:23 am
Well, thank you, Stella. I really appreciate your kind comment.
Posted by S on April 27, 2008 at 8:53 pm
God has already proved his existence. Remember Jesus? And.. the Bible? His living word?
That’s my simply complicated answer.
He proved it in the way he felt would do us the most good and many of us still don’t believe. And it wasn’t enough. That is human nature.
Example: Child desires toy. Take a child to the store that has toys, not good enough – she wants to look at the toys. Let her look, not good enough – she wants to touch, to play. Let her play with a toy, not good enough – she wants to bring the toy home. Bring it home and she plays with it for a bit before becoming bored desiring more. It can take a LOT to satiate a human, and some of us are purely insatiable.
God communes with us through/by/with the Holy Spirit, and, though millions of people have said they feel it, some have heard from God and speak about it – there is still disbelief. There is nothing more, really, that God can do, save coming back and revealing himself to us. Which, he said he will.
Posted by Morse on April 28, 2008 at 5:46 am
“He proved it in the way he felt would do us the most good and many of us still don’t believe. And it wasn’t enough.”
This may prove to cause more trouble than it’s worth, and for that I apologize. But, I need to ask.
The way that would do us the most good was to show himself in the middle of a desert amongst mostly illiterate people with no mass communication and no extra-biblical reports of his existence?
I know I’m just a prideful skeptic, but to me that sounds like someone who doesn’t want people to know he exists.
Posted by S on April 28, 2008 at 11:22 am
Maybe take out the part of “doing us the most good,” and fill that in with something along the lines of it being appropriate/pleasing to Him.
I guess He felt that should suffice? For the time being.
To say “God works in mysterious ways,” would just seem cheesy. But, it is true. As a human, it might be our desire to have him just, come on and bop us over the head with it; answer me – speak to me, show me some miracle or something, darnit!!!. And maybe he does, at times, but we’re too flawed to see it. As prideful (skeptic) humans
The way one person shows something like love (non-tangible, can’t really be “proven”) is different than the way another might. I may make dinner for my husband as an act of love and to prove the existence of my love for him, but my love-filled dinner might not measure up to his criteria. It doesn’t change the fact that I love him and that love exists.
Wouldn’t it be wonderful to “pick the brain of God” and be able to KNOW? For whatever reason, belief and faith, are an essential part of Christianity. You can’t prove them, or bop someone on the head with it*, but it is there. And that, to me, seems to be very much part of God’s plan. Giving us just enough to foster those thoughts and feelings, while leaving mystery.
*Although, it is highly curious when you hear testimonies of people with no former proclamation of a desire for Christ to enter their lives, and they are hit with an “Anointing” of the Holy Spirit that they simply can’t deny. That is some powerful evidence, but still raises a skeptical brow.
Posted by Second Michele on April 28, 2008 at 2:20 pm
(**fails miserably to resist the atheist bait**
)
“The way that would do us the most good was to show himself in the middle of a desert amongst mostly illiterate people with no mass communication and no extra-biblical reports of his existence?”
Well… He DID show Himself in the middle of (at the time) a very powerful empire and systematically humiliate each of its gods and destroyed its economy. (Exodus, first 12 or so chapters) Then, while these “mostly illiterate people with no mass communication” were wandering around in the middle of the desert, He helped Israel defeat a few more civilizations.
So 40 years later the inhabitants of one the best fortified cities in Canaan are terrified (Joshua 2) of a bunch of ex-slaves, because of God’s plagues on Egypt, and the destruction of the Amorite kings.
To me, that sounds like a God who wants pretty much EVERYONE to know He exists and is in charge.
And, not to go to far off topic, but what one sign, wonder, or miracle could God perform, given enough time and distance, that would not be re-interpreted to NOT prove God’s exisitance?
The people at Sinai who saw God thundering from that mountain were convinced…. for a while. But given enough time, you have to rely on other people telling you the story – or not.
Unless you are going to argue that God needs to perform an obvious and (ha!) indisputable miracle for each and every age and civilization of mankind – at some point you need to rely on what someone else has said about God to have faith God.
Posted by Second Michele on April 28, 2008 at 2:26 pm
(I’m laughing at the term indisputable because I can’t imagine a miracle that wouldn’t be disputed by someone and disbelieved by many – no matter how big a miracle it was. Remember, in the Bible, a LOT of influential people said Christ had a demon.)
Posted by S on April 29, 2008 at 5:28 am
There is nothing short of thundering from the sky and ending life on earth as we know it, that would convince us, permanently, that there is a God. (Which, in time, will happen, as predicted in the Bible, right?) If God came today, for 10 minutes and yelled at us from the clouds, it would be disputed within seconds of his disappearance, wouldn’t you suppose? Even Jesus knew that we could not be satiated for long and that many of us would dispute his holiness.
Jesus healed, he performed miracles. May have not been today, in today’s time. And if it were, many of us probably wouldn’t believe it anyway.
Posted by Morse on April 29, 2008 at 6:46 am
“To me, that sounds like a God who wants pretty much EVERYONE to know He exists and is in charge.”
It does. Sadly, there is, as far as I know, no independent evidence for any of those events actually taking place. The last I checked, there wasn’t even any archaeological or recorded evidence outside of the OT that the Hebrews were ever slaves in Egypt.
Had god wanted everyone to know, wouldn’t he have arranged for as many different sources to record what he did as possible?
“at some point you need to rely on what someone else has said about God to have faith God.”
Here’s where I have an issue. According to many Christians, they have had incredibly convincing person experiences of god. God has, in fact, come down and proved himself to them.
And apparently he’s very picky about this. Because no matter how many times I’ve prayed or asked for an answer, I’ve received nothing.
Why should I rely on what other people say when all these people are walking around and saying their god is giving them personal experiences? Seems a tad unfair, doesn’t it?
S:
“If God came today, for 10 minutes and yelled at us from the clouds, it would be disputed within seconds of his disappearance, wouldn’t you suppose?”
Sure it would be disputed. But if your god actually cared about being proved true, he’d stick around to answer all the disputes. Being god, I assume he could do so.
Posted by S on April 29, 2008 at 10:07 am
I hear ya Morse. I really do. I’m a cynical control freak.
My guess on why God doesn’t reveal himself in the obvious ways some of us would like him to is because it is Him and not us that is in control. And he has his own reasoning that is (probably) beyond what would make sense to me.
Morse, do you have kids? Kids they like reassurance, proof.
Mom, do you have my ___ that I gave you?
Yes, I put it in my pocked.
Let me see it, Mom.
You saw me put it in my pocked a few minutes ago. I haven’t touched it since.
Let me seeeeeee it. I wanna seeeee it.
Don’t you trust me?
Please? One more time, let me see it.
(Heavy sigh.)
They want proof, need it, I guess? Human nature. Reassurance feels good, even for the smallest things (like knowing your paycheck will arrive when it is supposed, knowing the garage door is shut, etc.).
God’s patience is greater than mine, but sometimes I wonder if he doesn’t have that heavy sigh thing going on every now and then thinking, I just showed you, you need to see again… already?
I like reassurance, too. And, sometimes wish God were sitting on his throne somewhere close enough to travel to, once in a while, see him. Yup, yup there he is. Go back to what I’m doing. How much that would change my life, I don’t know. God seems to know, or I trust that he does. I might not like it, but it is what it is.
Posted by Morse on April 29, 2008 at 10:36 am
My point is that I don’t need reassurance. I need the first sign.
I’m not a child. If given a personal experience, I’m relatively sure I’d become a believer. But I’ve never received one.
So please, when you have a free moment, ask your god why he seems to be hiding from the atheists.
Posted by S on May 2, 2008 at 5:06 pm
Morse, I do not believe he is “hiding” from anyone. There are signs all over the place. We just decide if we’re going to believe and follow in faith, or not.
Posted by Matt V on May 20, 2008 at 7:54 am
With the greatest respect I can muster I think the response to the question is incredibly naive and ridiculous. Let me explain.
I am an atheist, but no atheists are fundemental (or at least they shouldnt be) because atheists have to say that if there were any proof of god (and I am not talking about the god of the gaps – a replacement for being brave and saying ‘i dont know’) then I would alter my opinions. The one easy thing for thsi to happen is for the laws of nature to be broken (objects floating, shapeshifting, animals talking etc), for god to appear in the sky to all at once etc etc.
(Religious people have no way of proving god does not exist, just as you cannot prove Thor or Fairies or the flying spaghetti monster do not exist, so it makes it easy to be a religious fundementalist).
Your argument against this kind of reveleation is that ‘we wouldnt be able to cope’. Well guess what mr naive – people arent coping! Religious wars are going on everywhere in the world so who cares if some people faint or tear their clothes – we would know and agree and…well who knows what would happen after – but it would be proof, un deniable proof of something non-material and spiritual.
But even getting away from ‘proof’ you go on to say that god has already revealed himself before. But how did he do it?? To a backward middle eastern country and to only a few local people – the rest needed to be taken on trust/faith/unreasonable sheepness.
You continue by saying that we wouldnt want to know how the story ends and that we would get bored and stop progress. Well if that doesnt sound like Mr Anderson from the matrix i dont know what does. But I personally would want to know the truth, so I choose to be Neo thankyou very much!
“And then — and in fairly short order, too – you’d become a zombie. Because there’d be no mystery left in your life” – good grief man, have you so limited your life that if that area was exposed to you you would have nothing else to do?? I pity that comment on every level.
And so to my last point, let me take 2 quotes from you:
“Our relationship with God needs to be, to us, a two-way, interactive, give-and-take, constantly exchanging sort of relationship — of essentially the same sort as we have with everyone else in our lives.”
“God develops his relationship with us individually, from inside of us: God speaks to our heart, to our soul, to our experience, in the ways we most need to hear and understand him. God loves each one of us personally”
These 2 quotes tell me that when you speak of ‘us’ you actually mean everyone who is born in the west and is lucky enough to be as healthy (?) as you. How does a child born with Downes Syndrome or Autism or any one of the hundreds of brain damaging illnesses develop a relationship with god??
What about tribes in countries that have never heard of jesus or christianity until recently (or not at all)?
What about people who have psychological problems and already have too many people talking to them inside their heads to make time to have a “a two-way, interactive, give-and-take, constantly exchanging sort of relationship”?
And what happens to these people who never have a hope of finding jesus(or any other god) – well these much loved, personally cherished people go to hell according to your ridiculous conflicting, contradictory scripture.
This is an ever present problem of christians who seem to think everyone is the same and has the same chance. You want to live in your box and not KNOW if god exists – so that you can keep up your mysterious ways which cause wars and split humans into groups and have everything on faith.
To quote your own spiritual cliches: “An intelligent heart acquires knowledge, and the ear of the wise seeks knowledge” (proverbs!)
discuss!
Matt V
Posted by Gretchen on June 16, 2008 at 2:06 pm
religion is absolutely stupid. the bible was written as a form of government to control primitive human beings. i don’t understand how adults can actually believe the silly little fairy tales in the bible. none of that crap happened. it’s not possible. we’re told as children that magic things don’t exist…then why are we forced to have blind faith in some magical creature in the sky and believe these ridiculous magical stories? God is not real. Religion is not real. we have one life, and one chance to get it right.
Posted by Bruce on June 21, 2008 at 5:37 am
Why debate why God doesn’t prove He exists? Isn’t it obvious that if an all-powerful creator or God exists He doesn’t want us to know for sure, otherwise we would know, wouldn’t we? Or do you think He doesn’t want us to know just yet? But if He does exist, why wouldn’t He want us to know now? Perhaps what you really want to know is whether it is even possible for a God to exist?
Posted by Clark Bunch on July 25, 2008 at 10:31 pm
Gretchen is right when she says we have one life and one chance to get it right. Life is short, and where we spend eternity depends on what we do with the very limited time we have now. Religion is real whether God is or not, however. There are 6 major religions in the world today, and they can’t all be right. But even the ones that are “wrong” are real.
I recently wrote a post entitled Give us a Sign, and WordPress automatically suggested reading this post also. I know it’s a little old, but expect at least of couple of my readers to click over. This post is very good by the way.
Posted by raymond on January 1, 2009 at 5:47 pm
every one always answers a question with nothing but nonsense..to every one answering, you should admit you have not a clue as to why God doesn’t show himself..I personally think he is ashamed of how we have evolved..maybe we should have stayed up in the trees for a few more centuries and were given a test by him before any of us were allowed to walk the earth..God only knows why he stays hidden and if we’re lucky we won’t have to die before we all have a chance to be in his presence..
Posted by Indagatore on January 4, 2009 at 11:59 pm
I feel most certain that if God “proved” his existence undeniably to me, that I would not be bored or feel “unplugged” as a result. Rather I would feel relieved and excited about the next phase in heaven and the New Earth. Whether he did it at once to the whole world “Hey! It’s me!” or if he did it just to me personally, I would welcome it.
However, until that happens we’re left with faith. And believe me, I’m working on it, but it sure would be easier if He just popped in for a visit.
Posted by gins lou on March 19, 2009 at 8:37 pm
God does prove His existence to those he wants to prove it to. However, in spite of what you have been told, God does not love everybody. Romans chapter 9 pretty much covers it. V13 states “Jacob have I loved but Esau have I hated.” V18 states “God has mercy on whom He wants to have mercy and hardens whom he wants to harden.”
If Christians would accept this they would be less likely to browbeat others with the Gospel or to compromise the truth in an attempt to win them over. After all, v16 states, “It does not depend on man’s desire or effort, but on God’s mercy.
Posted by Donna on July 30, 2010 at 7:31 am
What I want to know and wonder about is why did it have to be such a violent way? Why couldn’t God just have come like He did – as Jesus- tell us all that He did (the gospels) and then fill His apostles with His Spirit and go on back. Why did it have to be the cross? Why so much pain for Jesus? Some people still don’t want to believe, so why did God make it that way? Does anyone else ever wonder about this?
Posted by mmafan on August 12, 2010 at 2:41 pm
if god was real he would show himself at least 1 time to every person because a god who knows all . knows man is corrupt and he can not use man to give a message to a 3ed party because his word would be twisted over time . the only way for every1 to get what they want besides satan is for god to prove he exist and me waking up and breathing is just a stupid example of proof
Posted by Shannon on August 12, 2010 at 3:29 pm
There – I read it smarty-pants! LOL
Interesting take – I however fall into that category of loonies who personally believe God has “proven” his existence to me (on a most personal and spiritual level). I could care less about any ridicule when I share my faith with others – it is what it is. I’m not here to change hearts and minds – only God can do that. But I can testify to my own experience.
I think you did miss one reason people ask why God doesn’t “prove” his existence – usually they want something: something tangible or out of reach; thereby God’s so-called proof would be giving them what they desire most. That motivation is usually what lies behind the “Why won’t God prove to me that he exists?” query. Unfortunately, even when God does give some people what they want or need, it still isn’t proof enough. Good post!
Posted by JohnB on August 12, 2010 at 5:04 pm
I don’t know, John. It seems there are many things he could have done that were subtile, which could have given us some evidence that He exists. For example, putting a profecy in the bible that people couldn’t “self-fulfill”, putting something physical on the planet that cannot be explained by any other means than through creation by a higher power, or even putting something into our genetic code that contains a message that we could only decode with modern technology. I’d be pretty impressed if in a clinical trial, prayer was demonstrated to work better than positive thinking, a faith healer successfully laid hands on an amputee, or scientists were ever to document anything supernatural (like a soul). None of these things would be overpowering, as the masses already believe in this sort of stuff.
I actually DO want some scrap of evidence to suggest that He exists. There have been tens of thousands of religions, and many of them contradict each other on how to get the reward. A little bit of supernatural instruction would be nice. I’d love to have a conversation with Him. I’d probably start with “what were you thinking?”
Posted by Paul West on August 13, 2010 at 4:54 am
“I actually do want some scrap of evidence to suggest that he exists too. Without question there have been tens of thousands of religions, and many of them contradict each other on how to get that all-important reward. Yes, that is quite true there are certainly enough
stupid religions out there, more than enough to confuse anyone seeking the so-called truth.
Agree, it would be nice if this coward of a creator would share a little bit of that supernatural instruction as to why any soul should love him with all its heart & mind. It’s not enough just to have a book of words that contradicts itself more times than it should from cover to cover. We as intelligent thinking beings already know that this universal standard of analytical thought has already proven itself viable down through the centuries. “That actions conclusively speak louder than words” I’d also love to have a one-on-one conversation with GOD too. Unfortunately that will obviously never happen in this pitifully short lifetime, since I honestly believe that this mysterious invisible selfish creator dude who is apparently in love with himself, has given up on this particular incredibly violent generation of misfits.
Now it’s not hard to understand his selfish game plan here. Logically speaking, countless generations have already passed away since the creation of man. Now think about this exercise in logic? billions and billions of people have already died over the centuries & to God’s further shame billions more will follow them in the centuries to come. Thus, the creator has become indifferent to mortal death, “overloaded by it”. it’s not hard to understand how this could be so. Were no different my comparisons you know.
example: how much remorse would any of us feel towards the destruction and death of a nest of insects. Now honestly do you grieve when you smack that bloodthirsty mosquito ending its existence forever ? obviously not. Or how about that piece of rotting fruit cover with maggots,would that break your heart too destroy the fruit along with those defenseless living creatures that inhabit it? Of course not. So you see God by whatever name he goes by can afford to lose an entire generation earmarked for destruction in his own private Hitler approved intergalactic concentration camp = hell. why? because any entity whether it calls itself God or the Devil who would create a race of intelligent beings without a damn good reason to do so, most be considered incompetent.
If there was a viable reason in the very beginning for the creation of man (noticed that this chauvinistic pig hardly never mentions womankind except too scorn) it was lost through the centuries. Hundreds of generations have already passed away therefore one must consider the obvious. With billions and billions of souls now on hold for a future judgment none of them actually deserve, the 8 billion that now inhabit this insect infested spinning piece of solar driftwood hold absolutely no value too God whatsoever. How could a mere mortal say that with absolutely no authority to scorned the Christian believer. that’s easy I use their own words to convict their self-righteous perfect in his own mind God of heresy. According to the book of Revelation the word judgment appears countless times. human beings reduced to the value of insects as this all loving father kills with famine, pestilence and death. so logically speaking, he’d rather see us nuke ourselves into extinction, other than provide his so-called beloved children that one shred of concrete evidence to build a viable relationship of love on.
end